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[Music]

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wow

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welcome to shattered reality with your

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hosts

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kate valentine and ferusha

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prepare to have your paradigms shifted

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into truth questioned and now

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shattered reality shattered reality

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well hello shattered reality listeners

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um i'm very happy to be here

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today on january 15

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2019 this is our

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first podcast of the new year

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and i certainly hope it won't be the

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last

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that doesn't have kate valentine with us

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she has been missing for a little while

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and we are hoping to welcome her back

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in the coming weeks so i believe this

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is number 82 of the podcast

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and we're going to start in right away

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i'm going to save all the other

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notes for the end of the podcast because

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we have

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a very special guest joining us today

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someone who is across the pond

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so it's a little bit later there than it

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is here and we don't want to

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inconvenience him not

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one little bit he is a very very

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well-known scientist internationally

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recognized

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phd perhaps more than once over

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and he as dr rupert sheldrake

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a biologist and author of more than 85

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scientific papers and 12 books

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he was a fellow of claire college

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cambridge university a frank knox

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fellow at harvard university and a

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research fellow

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of the royal society from 2005 to 2010

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he was the director of the parat

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warwick project funded by trinity

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college

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at cambridge he is a fellow of the

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institute of noetic sciences in petaluma

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california

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and of shoemaker college in devon

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england and his latest book is

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science and spiritual practices

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transformative experiences and their

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effects on our bodies

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brains and health so i would like to

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welcome

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dr rupert sheldrake hello rupert hello

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i'm very pleased to be with you well i

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am extraordinarily pleased to have you

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on

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and um what i would like to start with

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is because most everyone who would be

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listening to this podcast

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will have already heard your name

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i cannot guarantee that they have all

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read your books

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i myself have read four of your books

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and hope to make it more

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in the not too distant future however

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what i think that uh you are most well

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known for

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is for promoting and expanding the

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hypothesis

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of morphic resonance would you agree

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with that

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i suppose sir yes um and i think

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that just to make it real clear for the

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people who know your name

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but don't know your work which i would

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say maybe you know 30

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of our listeners the other uh 70

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probably have some concept of what it is

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could you just

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give us a little background on on the

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hypothesis of morphic resonance

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yes it's basically the idea that there's

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a memory

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in nature that there's a kind of

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collective memory in each species and in

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each kind of thing

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and in its most general sense the idea

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that the

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laws of nature are actually more like

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habits

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the universe is basically habit forming

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and

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evolution involves the development of

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new habits rather than everything being

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run by

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fixed laws that were all there at the

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moment of the big bang like a kind of

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cosmic napoleonic code

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so um the the actual way in which the

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memory or habits work

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is what i mean by morphic resonance

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similar patterns of activity

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resonate across time with subsequent

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similar patterns of activity

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and the result of this is that each

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species has a kind of collective memory

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not just a behavior but of form so

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every time a foxglove plant develops

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it's tuning into the kind of memory of

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the fox glove form

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from previous fox gloves it's inheriting

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genes of course which enable it to make

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the right proteins

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but the form is shaped by morphic

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resonance

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and every time a giraffe develops a baby

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giraffe

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collective memory

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and when the baby's born it then tunes

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into the memory of instincts of that

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species so

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instincts are a kind of habit of the

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species

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um this is a testable hypothesis and

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it's been tested

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successfully so far and it predicts that

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if you make a new chemical for the first

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time and crystallize it

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the first crystals may take a long time

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to form

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a new pattern has to come into being in

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nature

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but the more often you crystallize it

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the easier it gets

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and in fact that's what chemists have

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known for a long time

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new compounds get easier to crystallize

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around the world

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and they often assume this is because

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fragments of previous crystals have been

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wafted around in the atmosphere

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um and have settled out uh as dust

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but um this uh happens uh

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even if dust particles are filtered out

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and

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also if you train rats to learn a new

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trick say in new york

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then rats all around the world should

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thereafter be able to learn it quicker

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in london in melbourne australia and so

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on

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just because the rats have landed in new

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york without any normal means of

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communication

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that's why this hypothesis is surprising

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and indeed controversial

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because it's suggesting something that's

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not part of regular science

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but which i think makes a great more say

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much more sense out of

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evolution inheritance and indeed memory

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i have a few questions about that or um

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maybe statements uh how does this

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how does this relate to uh

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epigenetics as opposed to regular

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genetic selection in other words

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a gene gets to be expressed or not

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expressed and

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perhaps we consciously might have some

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control over that or maybe the

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morphic resonance has some control over

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that

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until about the year 2000 um

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regular biologists claimed that

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every bit of inheritance essentially was

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genetic apart from so-called cytoplasmic

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inheritance and cultural inheritance

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um and they were dead against the idea

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of the inheritance of acquired

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characters that was in fact a heresy

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so-called lumarkian inheritance

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but since the year 2000 it's now become

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mainstream

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and it's now generally agreed there is

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an inheritance of acquired characters

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people assume that it's all due to

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changes in the

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molecular um control of dna expression

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and i think that certainly plays a part

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but i think some of it could be morphic

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resonance

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as well or instead for example

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in some recent experiments um published

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in nature

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the leading international scientific

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journal

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people did experiments with mice um they

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trained the fathers to

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be averse to a particular smell a

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chemical called

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acetophenone um when it smelted they got

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a mild electric shock and so

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as soon as they smelt it they became

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frightened

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they then took sperm from these mice

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artificially inseminated females which

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never

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met the fathers um and their offspring

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and their grandchildren um had an

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instant fear

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of the smell of acetophenone and when

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this was published it was in

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the paper was called inheriting the

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fears of fathers

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so here's an inheritance of acquired

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characteristics

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which people assume must be

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due to um epigenetic molecular

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mechanisms but could

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equally well perhaps more plausibly be

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explained in terms of morphic resonance

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no one knows how it works

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uh in this case um but that's an example

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of the new kind of research that's going

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on

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under the general heading of epigenetic

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inheritance

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what really hit it for me that really

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hit the spot if you will

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was what you spoke about

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ayahuasca because it never really made

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sense to me that when people

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take ayahuasca i haven't i'm interested

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in it

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but i haven't had the guts to do it

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but when people take ayahuasca they do

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see

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tropical scenes the the uh the insects

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and the serpents sometimes are

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there and other animals and it's all

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like the andean tropics if i'm not

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mistaken

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and uh this never seemed to make a whole

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lot of sense to me

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but when you add the idea of morphic

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resonance to it it

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suddenly you see you get that head slap

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and say

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oh yeah that makes sense

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yes well i agree this is a very

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interesting case and

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there are okay there are recorded

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reports of people taking ayahuasca

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in modern urban settings who know

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nothing about its

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shamanic background in the in the amazon

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in region

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in south america um and

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in cultures where there's lots of

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mythology about serpents and jaguars and

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so on

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and they have visions of serpents and

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jaguars

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now what i think is happening is that

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there's a kind of inherent

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memory there a collective memory when

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you take ayahuasca

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the effect on your brain or my brain is

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very similar to the effect on the brains

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of people who've taken it before

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and that creates the conditions of

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similarity for morphic resonance

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so there's a kind of resonance from the

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people who've taken it before a kind of

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collective memory

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of ayahuasca takers which includes these

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amazonian mythologies and imagery um

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and it's not just ayahuasca the um the

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famous

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swiss chemist albert hoffman who uh

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discovered lsd

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was asked to analyze the active

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principles of magic mushrooms from

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mexico

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he was doing this research in basel

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switzerland

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and when he took these mushrooms himself

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00:11:44,710 --> 00:11:42,000
he knew they

291
00:11:45,990 --> 00:11:44,720
came from mexico but he got very sort of

292
00:11:49,190 --> 00:11:46,000
mexican aztec

293
00:11:51,269 --> 00:11:49,200
type imagery you could say that was

294
00:11:51,910 --> 00:11:51,279
suggestion he knew they were from mexico

295
00:11:54,829 --> 00:11:51,920
but

296
00:11:56,389 --> 00:11:54,839
he isolated the silo cyber the active

297
00:11:58,150 --> 00:11:56,399
principle

298
00:11:59,430 --> 00:11:58,160
and then gave it to other swiss people

299
00:12:02,069 --> 00:11:59,440
who didn't know

300
00:12:03,110 --> 00:12:02,079
where this came from and they also had

301
00:12:06,629 --> 00:12:03,120
mexican type

302
00:12:09,269 --> 00:12:06,639
imagery so this again suggests that

303
00:12:11,990 --> 00:12:09,279
there's a kind of collective memory

304
00:12:13,269 --> 00:12:12,000
based on the specific conditions created

305
00:12:16,310 --> 00:12:13,279
by these drugs

306
00:12:19,110 --> 00:12:16,320
so this is one particular instance of a

307
00:12:22,470 --> 00:12:19,120
possible effect of morphine resonance

308
00:12:25,269 --> 00:12:22,480
i will just the mexican references

309
00:12:26,870 --> 00:12:25,279
brought back to my mind a memory a

310
00:12:30,310 --> 00:12:26,880
personal memory that i have

311
00:12:31,670 --> 00:12:30,320
of going to chichen itza a number of

312
00:12:34,870 --> 00:12:31,680
years ago

313
00:12:35,350 --> 00:12:34,880
and i was in the company of a group of

314
00:12:37,670 --> 00:12:35,360
other

315
00:12:38,790 --> 00:12:37,680
young people four or five people

316
00:12:40,949 --> 00:12:38,800
traveling

317
00:12:42,470 --> 00:12:40,959
in a larger group but we hung out

318
00:12:45,110 --> 00:12:42,480
together and uh

319
00:12:46,790 --> 00:12:45,120
one of the gentlemen had a super eight

320
00:12:49,430 --> 00:12:46,800
movie camera which was

321
00:12:51,509 --> 00:12:49,440
something people did at that time and we

322
00:12:54,310 --> 00:12:51,519
went to the top of the

323
00:12:55,990 --> 00:12:54,320
one of the pyramids where persons were

324
00:12:58,629 --> 00:12:56,000
sacrificed and um

325
00:12:59,269 --> 00:12:58,639
i was a spiritual person even at that

326
00:13:01,750 --> 00:12:59,279
time and

327
00:13:02,870 --> 00:13:01,760
i was somewhat reverent and he was

328
00:13:05,350 --> 00:13:02,880
making fun of me

329
00:13:07,509 --> 00:13:05,360
and he was making fun of the situation

330
00:13:09,509 --> 00:13:07,519
and i said really do not do that i think

331
00:13:12,629 --> 00:13:09,519
it's a very bad idea

332
00:13:16,629 --> 00:13:12,639
and when he got his super eight movie

333
00:13:19,910 --> 00:13:16,639
uh stuff back his his uh his film back

334
00:13:22,230 --> 00:13:19,920
uh that part of the film was all like

335
00:13:25,430 --> 00:13:22,240
dripping blood

336
00:13:27,110 --> 00:13:25,440
and there's no other explanation for it

337
00:13:29,590 --> 00:13:27,120
but when he got up to the

338
00:13:31,509 --> 00:13:29,600
top of the uh the pyramid i guess it

339
00:13:33,990 --> 00:13:31,519
might have been the pyramid of the sun

340
00:13:35,030 --> 00:13:34,000
and um and was making fun of my

341
00:13:37,590 --> 00:13:35,040
reverence he

342
00:13:38,710 --> 00:13:37,600
he got a film back that was just looked

343
00:13:41,750 --> 00:13:38,720
like

344
00:13:43,670 --> 00:13:41,760
rolling dripping blood so hopefully that

345
00:13:44,949 --> 00:13:43,680
uh straightened him out a little bit

346
00:13:48,069 --> 00:13:44,959
moving on with the

347
00:13:50,310 --> 00:13:48,079
uh morphic resonance uh how about

348
00:13:53,030 --> 00:13:50,320
the hundredth is it the hundredth monkey

349
00:13:55,110 --> 00:13:53,040
theory that people always refer to

350
00:13:57,189 --> 00:13:55,120
uh would you say that is but that sounds

351
00:13:59,269 --> 00:13:57,199
like a a straightforward shot for

352
00:14:02,310 --> 00:13:59,279
morphic resonance is it

353
00:14:04,949 --> 00:14:02,320
um well unfortunately not no no okay

354
00:14:06,790 --> 00:14:04,959
it's the basic principle is uh

355
00:14:08,310 --> 00:14:06,800
illustrates morphine resonance but the

356
00:14:11,590 --> 00:14:08,320
story itself

357
00:14:13,910 --> 00:14:11,600
um isn't terribly reliable um

358
00:14:15,350 --> 00:14:13,920
what happened was that there were these

359
00:14:18,150 --> 00:14:15,360
scientists in japan

360
00:14:19,900 --> 00:14:18,160
studying monkeys on islands and they

361
00:14:21,030 --> 00:14:19,910
wanted to study the monkeys

362
00:14:22,710 --> 00:14:21,040
[Music]

363
00:14:24,710 --> 00:14:22,720
where they could see them so they took

364
00:14:25,829 --> 00:14:24,720
along sacks and sweet potatoes and put

365
00:14:28,710 --> 00:14:25,839
them on the beach

366
00:14:29,750 --> 00:14:28,720
so the monkeys came out of the forest

367
00:14:32,150 --> 00:14:29,760
and then the monkeys

368
00:14:34,230 --> 00:14:32,160
on one of the islands learned to wash

369
00:14:35,269 --> 00:14:34,240
the sand off the sweet potatoes in the

370
00:14:37,030 --> 00:14:35,279
sea

371
00:14:39,189 --> 00:14:37,040
and these japanese scientists when they

372
00:14:40,870 --> 00:14:39,199
went to other islands after a while

373
00:14:42,870 --> 00:14:40,880
found that this behavior seemed to

374
00:14:44,629 --> 00:14:42,880
spread to other islands

375
00:14:47,110 --> 00:14:44,639
now that is what happened and it looks

376
00:14:50,629 --> 00:14:47,120
very like morphic resonance

377
00:14:51,430 --> 00:14:50,639
but the british writer lana watson heard

378
00:14:53,990 --> 00:14:51,440
this story

379
00:14:55,990 --> 00:14:54,000
in japan and he wrote about it in one of

380
00:14:57,110 --> 00:14:56,000
his books and he sort of improved the

381
00:15:00,069 --> 00:14:57,120
story and he says

382
00:15:00,550 --> 00:15:00,079
he's improving it he says let us imagine

383
00:15:03,509 --> 00:15:00,560
that

384
00:15:04,949 --> 00:15:03,519
on a particular day one extra monkey say

385
00:15:07,430 --> 00:15:04,959
the hundredth monkey

386
00:15:09,269 --> 00:15:07,440
uh learned this trick suddenly all the

387
00:15:12,470 --> 00:15:09,279
monkeys everywhere in japan

388
00:15:13,509 --> 00:15:12,480
started doing it so you see he improved

389
00:15:15,430 --> 00:15:13,519
the story and then

390
00:15:17,030 --> 00:15:15,440
people in the anti-nuclear movement

391
00:15:18,310 --> 00:15:17,040
heard the story and they improved it

392
00:15:21,110 --> 00:15:18,320
even further

393
00:15:23,189 --> 00:15:21,120
and um every time it was told it sort of

394
00:15:25,030 --> 00:15:23,199
got more and more impressive until

395
00:15:27,670 --> 00:15:25,040
these monkeys suddenly started digging

396
00:15:30,470 --> 00:15:27,680
up sweet potatoes

397
00:15:31,590 --> 00:15:30,480
and so the story improved with each

398
00:15:34,310 --> 00:15:31,600
retelling

399
00:15:35,910 --> 00:15:34,320
and then the dogmatic skeptics got hold

400
00:15:38,150 --> 00:15:35,920
of it and they were able to show that

401
00:15:39,990 --> 00:15:38,160
nothing like this had really happened

402
00:15:41,269 --> 00:15:40,000
and they said they debunked the whole

403
00:15:44,470 --> 00:15:41,279
thing and

404
00:15:45,110 --> 00:15:44,480
um they it was nothing but a myth and so

405
00:15:47,990 --> 00:15:45,120
on

406
00:15:49,189 --> 00:15:48,000
um so it's not quite as straightforward

407
00:15:51,910 --> 00:15:49,199
as it seems

408
00:15:52,550 --> 00:15:51,920
many people have had the story um

409
00:15:55,189 --> 00:15:52,560
they've had

410
00:15:56,870 --> 00:15:55,199
various versions of it it does actually

411
00:15:58,230 --> 00:15:56,880
point towards something like morphic

412
00:16:00,230 --> 00:15:58,240
resonance and started

413
00:16:01,670 --> 00:16:00,240
from observations that suggest something

414
00:16:05,269 --> 00:16:01,680
like morphic resonance

415
00:16:08,150 --> 00:16:05,279
but in its form that is usually related

416
00:16:09,590 --> 00:16:08,160
it's an exaggeration with morphic

417
00:16:11,829 --> 00:16:09,600
resonance for example

418
00:16:13,509 --> 00:16:11,839
the more that learn it the easier it

419
00:16:14,949 --> 00:16:13,519
gets elsewhere this is what the

420
00:16:17,829 --> 00:16:14,959
experiments with rats

421
00:16:19,749 --> 00:16:17,839
show um there have been a whole series

422
00:16:21,670 --> 00:16:19,759
of experiments with rats that show these

423
00:16:24,069 --> 00:16:21,680
morphe resonance effects

424
00:16:25,829 --> 00:16:24,079
it's not like that story suggests that

425
00:16:28,310 --> 00:16:25,839
nothing happens till you get to one

426
00:16:31,590 --> 00:16:28,320
extra rat and suddenly they all do it

427
00:16:34,150 --> 00:16:31,600
um it's that suggests a kind of step

428
00:16:34,629 --> 00:16:34,160
function it's more like a curve you know

429
00:16:36,710 --> 00:16:34,639
you

430
00:16:38,550 --> 00:16:36,720
do it the easier it gets it's even

431
00:16:40,150 --> 00:16:38,560
slightly misleading about the actual

432
00:16:43,509 --> 00:16:40,160
effect

433
00:16:44,710 --> 00:16:43,519
well um i'm glad you were able to set

434
00:16:47,430 --> 00:16:44,720
that straight uh

435
00:16:49,990 --> 00:16:47,440
lyle watson unfortunately i think

436
00:16:52,710 --> 00:16:50,000
deceased at this point was an extremely

437
00:16:53,350 --> 00:16:52,720
interesting writer but maybe uh spread

438
00:16:55,910 --> 00:16:53,360
the truth

439
00:16:56,949 --> 00:16:55,920
a little bit he said in his book he

440
00:17:00,230 --> 00:16:56,959
actually said

441
00:17:02,069 --> 00:17:00,240
let us assume he didn't say um you know

442
00:17:03,910 --> 00:17:02,079
this is what really happened he said let

443
00:17:05,270 --> 00:17:03,920
us assume that this happened and then

444
00:17:07,429 --> 00:17:05,280
for the sake of argument

445
00:17:09,669 --> 00:17:07,439
he makes it clear that he's exaggerating

446
00:17:12,150 --> 00:17:09,679
okay that was left out when people

447
00:17:14,549 --> 00:17:12,160
repeated the story

448
00:17:15,750 --> 00:17:14,559
all righty well he's he's a very

449
00:17:18,789 --> 00:17:15,760
interesting author and

450
00:17:22,549 --> 00:17:18,799
i i enjoy his writing in any case

451
00:17:25,270 --> 00:17:22,559
uh so let's move on to your latest book

452
00:17:27,110 --> 00:17:25,280
science and spiritual practices

453
00:17:29,110 --> 00:17:27,120
transformative experiences

454
00:17:30,549 --> 00:17:29,120
and their effects on our bodies brains

455
00:17:34,150 --> 00:17:30,559
and health now

456
00:17:36,710 --> 00:17:34,160
this book is uh available in the us

457
00:17:38,150 --> 00:17:36,720
and um around the the english-speaking

458
00:17:41,110 --> 00:17:38,160
world i suspect

459
00:17:42,630 --> 00:17:41,120
and it's from counterpoint uh books and

460
00:17:45,029 --> 00:17:42,640
i'm just giving a little

461
00:17:46,549 --> 00:17:45,039
a little commercial here for you and

462
00:17:49,430 --> 00:17:46,559
anytime you want to

463
00:17:51,430 --> 00:17:49,440
put something like that in please do

464
00:17:53,669 --> 00:17:51,440
because i'm not always cognizant of

465
00:17:57,110 --> 00:17:53,679
doing it at regular intervals

466
00:18:01,669 --> 00:17:57,120
so um you number

467
00:18:05,750 --> 00:18:01,679
several actions that can be taken

468
00:18:08,230 --> 00:18:05,760
uh that can um transform the person

469
00:18:09,110 --> 00:18:08,240
each individual person and and improve

470
00:18:12,470 --> 00:18:09,120
the person's

471
00:18:12,870 --> 00:18:12,480
body brain and health and you start out

472
00:18:16,470 --> 00:18:12,880
with

473
00:18:18,870 --> 00:18:16,480
meditation so um would you like to talk

474
00:18:20,710 --> 00:18:18,880
about that a little bit

475
00:18:22,710 --> 00:18:20,720
yes well in this book science and

476
00:18:25,270 --> 00:18:22,720
spiritual practices i discussed seven

477
00:18:27,590 --> 00:18:25,280
different spiritual practices

478
00:18:29,830 --> 00:18:27,600
which have been studied scientifically

479
00:18:30,870 --> 00:18:29,840
and these practices all have measurable

480
00:18:34,870 --> 00:18:30,880
effects

481
00:18:37,110 --> 00:18:34,880
very positive people who

482
00:18:38,630 --> 00:18:37,120
have regular religious or spiritual

483
00:18:42,549 --> 00:18:38,640
practices tend to

484
00:18:44,630 --> 00:18:42,559
be happier healthier and live longer

485
00:18:46,470 --> 00:18:44,640
so i mean these are very very beneficial

486
00:18:49,110 --> 00:18:46,480
effects and of course millions of people

487
00:18:50,470 --> 00:18:49,120
now meditate around the world about 18

488
00:18:54,390 --> 00:18:50,480
million people in the us

489
00:18:58,070 --> 00:18:54,400
meditate that means huge numbers

490
00:19:00,789 --> 00:18:58,080
so meditation's been studied

491
00:19:01,830 --> 00:19:00,799
quite intensively for nearly 40 years

492
00:19:04,789 --> 00:19:01,840
now

493
00:19:05,350 --> 00:19:04,799
um and what these studies show is that

494
00:19:07,830 --> 00:19:05,360
people who

495
00:19:09,190 --> 00:19:07,840
meditate regularly tend to have lower

496
00:19:12,470 --> 00:19:09,200
blood blood pressure

497
00:19:16,310 --> 00:19:12,480
less stress sleep better

498
00:19:19,430 --> 00:19:16,320
and have more effective lives

499
00:19:21,909 --> 00:19:19,440
so it has very beneficial effects

500
00:19:23,270 --> 00:19:21,919
on people's lives which is why a lot of

501
00:19:26,630 --> 00:19:23,280
people do it

502
00:19:29,669 --> 00:19:26,640
and it's now taught in schools colleges

503
00:19:32,549 --> 00:19:29,679
and even in some prisons

504
00:19:34,310 --> 00:19:32,559
so and it's quite widely practiced it

505
00:19:36,950 --> 00:19:34,320
also affects the

506
00:19:40,549 --> 00:19:36,960
functioning of the brain even leading to

507
00:19:43,510 --> 00:19:40,559
anatomical changes in brains

508
00:19:44,710 --> 00:19:43,520
so i think the beneficial effects of

509
00:19:48,310 --> 00:19:44,720
meditation are now

510
00:19:50,070 --> 00:19:48,320
very well documented and here in britain

511
00:19:52,070 --> 00:19:50,080
you can even get a prescription for

512
00:19:54,630 --> 00:19:52,080
meditation from a psychiatrist

513
00:19:55,430 --> 00:19:54,640
if you have mild or moderate depression

514
00:19:57,270 --> 00:19:55,440
because

515
00:19:58,549 --> 00:19:57,280
as you know we have a free health

516
00:20:00,230 --> 00:19:58,559
service here

517
00:20:02,149 --> 00:20:00,240
and they're always trying to cut the

518
00:20:06,549 --> 00:20:02,159
costs

519
00:20:09,110 --> 00:20:06,559
and it turns out that meditation

520
00:20:10,870 --> 00:20:09,120
works as well if not better than

521
00:20:12,870 --> 00:20:10,880
antidepressant drugs for

522
00:20:14,950 --> 00:20:12,880
mild or moderate depression and of

523
00:20:17,750 --> 00:20:14,960
course has no side effects

524
00:20:19,669 --> 00:20:17,760
and is very much cheaper so that's why

525
00:20:21,270 --> 00:20:19,679
you can now actually get prescriptions

526
00:20:24,549 --> 00:20:21,280
for a course of meditation

527
00:20:25,110 --> 00:20:24,559
training um in in on the national health

528
00:20:27,270 --> 00:20:25,120
service

529
00:20:28,390 --> 00:20:27,280
that's great that's that's a wonderful

530
00:20:31,430 --> 00:20:28,400
benefit

531
00:20:34,870 --> 00:20:31,440
think the

532
00:20:36,710 --> 00:20:34,880
the term uh the the evidence about

533
00:20:39,029 --> 00:20:36,720
meditation is clear

534
00:20:41,029 --> 00:20:39,039
um i mean there may be a few people it

535
00:20:41,270 --> 00:20:41,039
doesn't benefit but most people who try

536
00:20:47,990 --> 00:20:41,280
it

537
00:20:51,190 --> 00:20:48,000
religious

538
00:20:53,750 --> 00:20:51,200
um or spiritual belief system

539
00:20:54,630 --> 00:20:53,760
in fact quite a number of atheists now

540
00:20:58,070 --> 00:20:54,640
meditate

541
00:21:00,870 --> 00:20:58,080
including some prominent public atheists

542
00:21:03,430 --> 00:21:00,880
paris the so-called new atheist now

543
00:21:06,470 --> 00:21:03,440
gives online meditation courses

544
00:21:08,070 --> 00:21:06,480
so um that's a particularly interesting

545
00:21:10,230 --> 00:21:08,080
feature of it

546
00:21:11,669 --> 00:21:10,240
but in its traditional setting in

547
00:21:14,310 --> 00:21:11,679
buddhism or hinduism

548
00:21:15,590 --> 00:21:14,320
or in contemplative prayer in

549
00:21:19,430 --> 00:21:15,600
christianity

550
00:21:22,470 --> 00:21:19,440
um where meditation's been practiced for

551
00:21:24,230 --> 00:21:22,480
centuries uh even millennia in in the

552
00:21:26,149 --> 00:21:24,240
east

553
00:21:28,230 --> 00:21:26,159
people weren't doing it so they could be

554
00:21:30,710 --> 00:21:28,240
more effective in love and business

555
00:21:31,990 --> 00:21:30,720
or have lower blood pressure they were

556
00:21:33,669 --> 00:21:32,000
doing it because they thought

557
00:21:35,190 --> 00:21:33,679
it took them to the very ground of

558
00:21:37,669 --> 00:21:35,200
consciousness itself

559
00:21:39,270 --> 00:21:37,679
which linked them to the source of all

560
00:21:41,029 --> 00:21:39,280
consciousness the idea

561
00:21:42,789 --> 00:21:41,039
all religions have the idea there's a

562
00:21:45,830 --> 00:21:42,799
conscious source beyond

563
00:21:47,830 --> 00:21:45,840
the world and that our consciousness can

564
00:21:48,310 --> 00:21:47,840
link directly to that because it's in

565
00:21:50,950 --> 00:21:48,320
fact

566
00:21:52,710 --> 00:21:50,960
part of it now for materialists and

567
00:21:54,470 --> 00:21:52,720
atheists

568
00:21:56,470 --> 00:21:54,480
meditation is just affecting their

569
00:21:56,950 --> 00:21:56,480
brains it's all happening inside their

570
00:21:59,029 --> 00:21:56,960
head

571
00:22:00,070 --> 00:21:59,039
it's not linking them to something out

572
00:22:05,270 --> 00:22:00,080
there

573
00:22:06,070 --> 00:22:05,280
consciousness beyond the human level and

574
00:22:09,510 --> 00:22:06,080
meditation

575
00:22:11,190 --> 00:22:09,520
can link us to them i agree

576
00:22:13,350 --> 00:22:11,200
so but for most meditators they don't

577
00:22:15,510 --> 00:22:13,360
think much about that they just do it

578
00:22:17,350 --> 00:22:15,520
but i think through doing it people

579
00:22:18,070 --> 00:22:17,360
often have experiences that take them

580
00:22:19,990 --> 00:22:18,080
beyond this

581
00:22:21,750 --> 00:22:20,000
rather limited materialist view of

582
00:22:22,950 --> 00:22:21,760
consciousness being confined to the

583
00:22:25,029 --> 00:22:22,960
brain

584
00:22:27,270 --> 00:22:25,039
and actually change their world view

585
00:22:29,350 --> 00:22:27,280
opening up to the idea of greater

586
00:22:32,390 --> 00:22:29,360
spiritual realities

587
00:22:36,070 --> 00:22:32,400
well um just to get into uh

588
00:22:38,070 --> 00:22:36,080
the concept of it being either

589
00:22:39,990 --> 00:22:38,080
a you know an atheist can do it a

590
00:22:43,110 --> 00:22:40,000
spiritual person can do it or a

591
00:22:46,149 --> 00:22:43,120
religious person can do it

592
00:22:49,510 --> 00:22:46,159
it does seem to me to be that

593
00:22:50,789 --> 00:22:49,520
the religious person would have a

594
00:22:53,590 --> 00:22:50,799
framework

595
00:22:54,789 --> 00:22:53,600
already in existence with most major

596
00:22:57,750 --> 00:22:54,799
religions

597
00:22:59,430 --> 00:22:57,760
in which to practice it whereas a

598
00:23:02,549 --> 00:22:59,440
spiritual person

599
00:23:05,909 --> 00:23:02,559
may be able to meditate very well

600
00:23:09,430 --> 00:23:05,919
but lack the community uh to

601
00:23:10,070 --> 00:23:09,440
work with and that might be a hindrance

602
00:23:13,430 --> 00:23:10,080
on some

603
00:23:16,549 --> 00:23:13,440
level on the other hand

604
00:23:19,270 --> 00:23:16,559
talking about different methods of

605
00:23:20,549 --> 00:23:19,280
of meditation one of which is a

606
00:23:23,990 --> 00:23:20,559
repetition

607
00:23:25,669 --> 00:23:24,000
of a mantra a a small

608
00:23:28,070 --> 00:23:25,679
prayer you know as just a sort of

609
00:23:30,149 --> 00:23:28,080
statement prayer that could be repeated

610
00:23:33,029 --> 00:23:30,159
that's one way to get into it that

611
00:23:34,870 --> 00:23:33,039
uh you have mentioned and i have

612
00:23:37,990 --> 00:23:34,880
experienced another is

613
00:23:38,870 --> 00:23:38,000
the breathing method uh using certain

614
00:23:41,350 --> 00:23:38,880
kinds of breath

615
00:23:42,310 --> 00:23:41,360
which i find very troubling for me

616
00:23:45,669 --> 00:23:42,320
because i

617
00:23:48,390 --> 00:23:45,679
i i it's doesn't work for me at all but

618
00:23:49,669 --> 00:23:48,400
i wanted i wanted to suggest a third

619
00:23:52,470 --> 00:23:49,679
method

620
00:23:53,430 --> 00:23:52,480
which would be entering through the body

621
00:23:58,549 --> 00:23:53,440
like becoming

622
00:23:59,430 --> 00:23:58,559
aware of a a graduated relaxation method

623
00:24:02,549 --> 00:23:59,440
or even

624
00:24:04,710 --> 00:24:02,559
i get very joyful simply by

625
00:24:07,029 --> 00:24:04,720
thinking about the souls of my feet and

626
00:24:08,390 --> 00:24:07,039
putting my consciousness into the souls

627
00:24:10,950 --> 00:24:08,400
of my feet it gives me

628
00:24:11,590 --> 00:24:10,960
i can't explain it but it gives me great

629
00:24:13,190 --> 00:24:11,600
joy

630
00:24:15,110 --> 00:24:13,200
do you want to speak a little bit about

631
00:24:16,789 --> 00:24:15,120
about that

632
00:24:19,750 --> 00:24:16,799
well i've never tried putting my

633
00:24:23,750 --> 00:24:19,760
consciousness in the souls of my feet

634
00:24:27,750 --> 00:24:23,760
i i do meditate regularly but i i

635
00:24:30,070 --> 00:24:27,760
um yes i think the point about

636
00:24:32,310 --> 00:24:30,080
meditation is that

637
00:24:33,510 --> 00:24:32,320
you set up a focus of concentration or

638
00:24:35,669 --> 00:24:33,520
retention

639
00:24:38,390 --> 00:24:35,679
different from the chatter that's going

640
00:24:40,549 --> 00:24:38,400
on in your mind which is

641
00:24:42,870 --> 00:24:40,559
an activity of the so-called default

642
00:24:43,430 --> 00:24:42,880
mode network which is a series of brain

643
00:24:45,510 --> 00:24:43,440
act

644
00:24:47,750 --> 00:24:45,520
regions that are linked up together

645
00:24:51,269 --> 00:24:47,760
involved in rumination or internal

646
00:24:53,590 --> 00:24:51,279
dialogue mantras

647
00:24:55,350 --> 00:24:53,600
provide one focus by focusing on the

648
00:24:56,149 --> 00:24:55,360
mantra it sort of takes you away from

649
00:24:58,149 --> 00:24:56,159
all that

650
00:24:59,669 --> 00:24:58,159
breathing is another and obviously in

651
00:25:02,870 --> 00:24:59,679
your case

652
00:25:05,590 --> 00:25:02,880
the cells of the feet are another method

653
00:25:07,029 --> 00:25:05,600
i mean mindful meditative walking is

654
00:25:09,510 --> 00:25:07,039
another practice that

655
00:25:12,870 --> 00:25:09,520
happens in sons and traditions in other

656
00:25:15,590 --> 00:25:12,880
oriental traditions as well

657
00:25:17,269 --> 00:25:15,600
it doesn't seem to matter too much where

658
00:25:19,510 --> 00:25:17,279
you put your attention

659
00:25:21,430 --> 00:25:19,520
as long as it's taken away from the it

660
00:25:22,310 --> 00:25:21,440
drains the energy out of the normal

661
00:25:24,950 --> 00:25:22,320
obsessive

662
00:25:25,750 --> 00:25:24,960
thought processes that we're trapped in

663
00:25:28,870 --> 00:25:25,760
and

664
00:25:29,669 --> 00:25:28,880
opens up a space a gap where we can be

665
00:25:31,830 --> 00:25:29,679
aware

666
00:25:33,590 --> 00:25:31,840
that our minds are larger than the

667
00:25:37,029 --> 00:25:33,600
thoughts that are going through them

668
00:25:38,950 --> 00:25:37,039
it's as if our normal thoughts are like

669
00:25:40,950 --> 00:25:38,960
clouds going through the sky and we're

670
00:25:43,590 --> 00:25:40,960
normally completely

671
00:25:44,870 --> 00:25:43,600
en enclosed in them and and sweat and

672
00:25:47,190 --> 00:25:44,880
caught up with them

673
00:25:47,990 --> 00:25:47,200
but meditative techniques and they want

674
00:25:50,630 --> 00:25:48,000
to sort of step

675
00:25:52,549 --> 00:25:50,640
back and then realize that there's the

676
00:25:53,669 --> 00:25:52,559
ground of our consciousness is more like

677
00:25:55,909 --> 00:25:53,679
the sky itself

678
00:25:56,950 --> 00:25:55,919
rather than the clouds going through it

679
00:25:59,190 --> 00:25:56,960
the basis

680
00:26:00,470 --> 00:25:59,200
of our whole conscious life and that

681
00:26:03,110 --> 00:26:00,480
connects with

682
00:26:04,070 --> 00:26:03,120
uh the ultimate source of consciousness

683
00:26:07,269 --> 00:26:04,080
um

684
00:26:09,350 --> 00:26:07,279
of the ground of all being yes

685
00:26:12,149 --> 00:26:09,360
which could be thought of as god or the

686
00:26:15,269 --> 00:26:12,159
universal consciousness or all that is

687
00:26:18,310 --> 00:26:15,279
or any of that those sorts of words

688
00:26:20,470 --> 00:26:18,320
um and uh we get at this point

689
00:26:22,950 --> 00:26:20,480
i have two thoughts here the walking

690
00:26:24,390 --> 00:26:22,960
meditation kind of brings us into your

691
00:26:26,630 --> 00:26:24,400
last um

692
00:26:29,110 --> 00:26:26,640
your last spiritual practice the

693
00:26:31,750 --> 00:26:29,120
pilgrimage because a lot of a pilgrimage

694
00:26:32,549 --> 00:26:31,760
could be uh walking meditation but we're

695
00:26:34,470 --> 00:26:32,559
gonna

696
00:26:35,750 --> 00:26:34,480
we'll leave that for a little bit later

697
00:26:38,230 --> 00:26:35,760
in our discussion

698
00:26:39,430 --> 00:26:38,240
the other thing is of course the

699
00:26:41,430 --> 00:26:39,440
argument

700
00:26:43,430 --> 00:26:41,440
what is known as the hard problem of

701
00:26:46,710 --> 00:26:43,440
consciousness and

702
00:26:50,149 --> 00:26:46,720
whether we shall decide or think

703
00:26:53,750 --> 00:26:50,159
that the the physical brain

704
00:26:55,750 --> 00:26:53,760
is a reducing valve for uh consciousness

705
00:26:58,230 --> 00:26:55,760
to be expressed through our bodies

706
00:26:58,870 --> 00:26:58,240
and that the greater consciousness lies

707
00:27:01,510 --> 00:26:58,880
beyond

708
00:27:01,909 --> 00:27:01,520
the actual brain the mind hooking up

709
00:27:05,269 --> 00:27:01,919
with

710
00:27:06,549 --> 00:27:05,279
um higher self universal consciousness

711
00:27:09,029 --> 00:27:06,559
god

712
00:27:12,870 --> 00:27:09,039
other perhaps other entities

713
00:27:16,710 --> 00:27:15,350
yes well i think i think that puts it

714
00:27:20,389 --> 00:27:16,720
very well yes

715
00:27:22,789 --> 00:27:20,399
and i think you you see i

716
00:27:25,110 --> 00:27:22,799
your point about this um being rather

717
00:27:27,830 --> 00:27:25,120
individualistic practice is is also

718
00:27:28,389 --> 00:27:27,840
true and that's why in my book i also

719
00:27:30,230 --> 00:27:28,399
discuss

720
00:27:31,590 --> 00:27:30,240
other spiritual practices which are more

721
00:27:34,630 --> 00:27:31,600
collective than

722
00:27:37,269 --> 00:27:34,640
linkers or connectors to other people

723
00:27:38,470 --> 00:27:37,279
one of them is chanting and singing and

724
00:27:40,710 --> 00:27:38,480
this is part of all

725
00:27:42,310 --> 00:27:40,720
religious traditions um they all have

726
00:27:44,389 --> 00:27:42,320
singing and chanting

727
00:27:45,750 --> 00:27:44,399
and there have been a lot of studies now

728
00:27:49,350 --> 00:27:45,760
which show that when you're singing

729
00:27:51,750 --> 00:27:49,360
together or chanting together

730
00:27:52,389 --> 00:27:51,760
you your whole body resonates with the

731
00:27:53,909 --> 00:27:52,399
sand

732
00:27:55,510 --> 00:27:53,919
you resonate with other people because

733
00:27:57,269 --> 00:27:55,520
you're doing it together you take

734
00:28:00,470 --> 00:27:57,279
breaths at the same time you

735
00:28:01,190 --> 00:28:00,480
make the same sounds and if you're

736
00:28:04,389 --> 00:28:01,200
chanting

737
00:28:05,909 --> 00:28:04,399
a sacred song or sound or mantra then

738
00:28:07,990 --> 00:28:05,919
biomorphic resonance

739
00:28:09,269 --> 00:28:08,000
which we've already discussed but

740
00:28:10,870 --> 00:28:09,279
because it's similar

741
00:28:12,870 --> 00:28:10,880
you connect up with those who've done it

742
00:28:14,149 --> 00:28:12,880
before so there's a connection across

743
00:28:16,149 --> 00:28:14,159
time

744
00:28:17,350 --> 00:28:16,159
and the same goes for rituals all

745
00:28:21,190 --> 00:28:17,360
religions and

746
00:28:24,389 --> 00:28:21,200
many secular social groups have rituals

747
00:28:25,430 --> 00:28:24,399
and by repeating the ritual the way it's

748
00:28:27,269 --> 00:28:25,440
been done before

749
00:28:29,510 --> 00:28:27,279
more or less the same way it's been done

750
00:28:31,029 --> 00:28:29,520
in the past you create the conditions

751
00:28:32,389 --> 00:28:31,039
for morphic resonance so there's a

752
00:28:34,950 --> 00:28:32,399
presence of the past

753
00:28:37,430 --> 00:28:34,960
a connection across time with previous

754
00:28:39,909 --> 00:28:37,440
generations right back to the first time

755
00:28:41,990 --> 00:28:39,919
the ritual happened and this is

756
00:28:44,630 --> 00:28:42,000
something that happens in

757
00:28:45,590 --> 00:28:44,640
religious rituals like the jewish

758
00:28:48,389 --> 00:28:45,600
passover

759
00:28:49,269 --> 00:28:48,399
or the christian holy communion also in

760
00:28:51,269 --> 00:28:49,279
national

761
00:28:52,310 --> 00:28:51,279
rituals like the american thanksgiving

762
00:28:55,190 --> 00:28:52,320
dinner

763
00:28:55,830 --> 00:28:55,200
where people reenact a particular event

764
00:28:57,669 --> 00:28:55,840
that was

765
00:29:00,310 --> 00:28:57,679
of key importance in the history of the

766
00:29:02,950 --> 00:29:00,320
group in the case of america the first

767
00:29:03,590 --> 00:29:02,960
settlers in new england uh giving thanks

768
00:29:07,029 --> 00:29:03,600
for

769
00:29:13,190 --> 00:29:07,039
and

770
00:29:16,310 --> 00:29:13,200
over the first year um

771
00:29:16,789 --> 00:29:16,320
these uh rituals uh connect us with each

772
00:29:18,870 --> 00:29:16,799
other

773
00:29:20,230 --> 00:29:18,880
and with those before so they're much

774
00:29:23,430 --> 00:29:20,240
more connected

775
00:29:26,630 --> 00:29:23,440
socially um whereas meditation is more

776
00:29:28,710 --> 00:29:26,640
individualistic so it's not in my view

777
00:29:29,669 --> 00:29:28,720
these are these practices not either or

778
00:29:31,510 --> 00:29:29,679
it's both and

779
00:29:32,789 --> 00:29:31,520
which is why these are three of the

780
00:29:36,470 --> 00:29:32,799
practices i include

781
00:29:40,389 --> 00:29:36,480
in my book yes uh and and and very

782
00:29:43,669 --> 00:29:40,399
well done i must say in terms of rituals

783
00:29:46,710 --> 00:29:43,679
i have a particular

784
00:29:50,710 --> 00:29:46,720
relationship to rituals that um

785
00:29:54,549 --> 00:29:50,720
might be even new for people to do

786
00:29:56,389 --> 00:29:54,559
i find that i you know i have clients

787
00:29:57,909 --> 00:29:56,399
who come and ask me for advice in

788
00:30:01,190 --> 00:29:57,919
various ways and

789
00:30:01,990 --> 00:30:01,200
are not able to train their minds very

790
00:30:04,950 --> 00:30:02,000
easily

791
00:30:06,389 --> 00:30:04,960
uh they're not able to just lay down and

792
00:30:09,669 --> 00:30:06,399
meditate for instance

793
00:30:13,190 --> 00:30:09,679
but um if you give a person a small

794
00:30:16,310 --> 00:30:13,200
ritual to do like gazing into a candle

795
00:30:16,950 --> 00:30:16,320
uh having certain objects in front of

796
00:30:20,310 --> 00:30:16,960
them

797
00:30:22,389 --> 00:30:20,320
they are forced to to concentrate on

798
00:30:25,430 --> 00:30:22,399
something and therefore

799
00:30:26,149 --> 00:30:25,440
what they intend their intention is more

800
00:30:29,269 --> 00:30:26,159
likely

801
00:30:30,549 --> 00:30:29,279
to happen also if you do an intention

802
00:30:32,950 --> 00:30:30,559
with a group

803
00:30:35,029 --> 00:30:32,960
it would seem that the intention is

804
00:30:36,149 --> 00:30:35,039
pushed a little bit further now this is

805
00:30:38,870 --> 00:30:36,159
not the same as

806
00:30:39,510 --> 00:30:38,880
a meditation obviously because there is

807
00:30:42,630 --> 00:30:39,520
um

808
00:30:46,389 --> 00:30:42,640
a purpose to it a specific purpose like

809
00:30:48,950 --> 00:30:46,399
you wanna you want to find a partner

810
00:30:49,669 --> 00:30:48,960
let's say in life as many of my clients

811
00:30:52,950 --> 00:30:49,679
do

812
00:30:56,470 --> 00:30:52,960
an

813
00:30:59,750 --> 00:30:56,480
intention multiplies the

814
00:31:03,190 --> 00:30:59,760
effects of the the intention and

815
00:31:07,830 --> 00:31:03,200
the mind is focused on

816
00:31:10,230 --> 00:31:07,840
on the ritual and thereby the

817
00:31:12,389 --> 00:31:10,240
affirmation is pushed further the

818
00:31:16,070 --> 00:31:12,399
intention is pushed further i think

819
00:31:18,630 --> 00:31:16,080
that some of the uh the people

820
00:31:19,909 --> 00:31:18,640
at the society for scientific

821
00:31:22,389 --> 00:31:19,919
exploration which i

822
00:31:23,269 --> 00:31:22,399
assume you're familiar with uh the dean

823
00:31:26,549 --> 00:31:23,279
raiden

824
00:31:29,110 --> 00:31:26,559
julia mossberg bridge group um

825
00:31:31,269 --> 00:31:29,120
somebody measured the amount and i wish

826
00:31:32,310 --> 00:31:31,279
i i knew this who did but measured the

827
00:31:35,590 --> 00:31:32,320
amount

828
00:31:37,990 --> 00:31:35,600
uh that was improved

829
00:31:39,830 --> 00:31:38,000
of having more than one person do an

830
00:31:40,789 --> 00:31:39,840
intention like if you have one person

831
00:31:42,950 --> 00:31:40,799
intending

832
00:31:44,710 --> 00:31:42,960
uh strongly maybe there's an eight

833
00:31:47,029 --> 00:31:44,720
percent better chance that

834
00:31:50,070 --> 00:31:47,039
that will happen but if you start adding

835
00:31:53,029 --> 00:31:50,080
people it can go up to 12 or 15

836
00:31:53,430 --> 00:31:53,039
i wish i knew the person that actually

837
00:31:55,590 --> 00:31:53,440
did

838
00:31:57,350 --> 00:31:55,600
that experiment it may have been

839
00:32:01,110 --> 00:31:57,360
replicated as well but it

840
00:32:02,710 --> 00:32:01,120
seems to come out of that general group

841
00:32:04,710 --> 00:32:02,720
i'm not familiar with that particular

842
00:32:05,830 --> 00:32:04,720
experiment i am familiar with the group

843
00:32:07,830 --> 00:32:05,840
i'm a member of the

844
00:32:09,590 --> 00:32:07,840
society for scientific exploration

845
00:32:12,830 --> 00:32:09,600
myself you and me both

846
00:32:16,789 --> 00:32:12,840
hey okay so

847
00:32:19,909 --> 00:32:16,799
um well i think that this

848
00:32:22,389 --> 00:32:19,919
you know all traditional societies um

849
00:32:25,029 --> 00:32:22,399
have these collective practices which is

850
00:32:28,789 --> 00:32:25,039
what going to church or to synagogue

851
00:32:30,149 --> 00:32:28,799
or taking part in a buddhist new moon

852
00:32:33,190 --> 00:32:30,159
ceremony or

853
00:32:35,269 --> 00:32:33,200
um or shamanic ceremonies in tribal

854
00:32:36,549 --> 00:32:35,279
cultures where they celebrate and dance

855
00:32:38,870 --> 00:32:36,559
and sing together

856
00:32:40,230 --> 00:32:38,880
all of these are ways of linking

857
00:32:43,110 --> 00:32:40,240
people's intentions

858
00:32:44,789 --> 00:32:43,120
together and you know in church services

859
00:32:45,750 --> 00:32:44,799
and in synagogues people are praying

860
00:32:49,509 --> 00:32:45,760
together

861
00:32:51,990 --> 00:32:49,519
um and in mosques and i think that these

862
00:32:53,110 --> 00:32:52,000
are very traditional ways of linking up

863
00:32:56,710 --> 00:32:53,120
with others

864
00:32:59,830 --> 00:32:56,720
basically these spiritual practices are

865
00:33:01,990 --> 00:32:59,840
about connection and

866
00:33:03,750 --> 00:33:02,000
they connect us with the ground of being

867
00:33:05,830 --> 00:33:03,760
they connect us with other people they

868
00:33:07,190 --> 00:33:05,840
connect us with ancestors they connect

869
00:33:10,630 --> 00:33:07,200
us with places

870
00:33:12,470 --> 00:33:10,640
as in pilgrimage so they're always of

871
00:33:15,350 --> 00:33:12,480
making us more connected

872
00:33:16,549 --> 00:33:15,360
and typically people feel happier when

873
00:33:18,950 --> 00:33:16,559
they're connected and

874
00:33:19,990 --> 00:33:18,960
unhappier when they're not so they also

875
00:33:23,190 --> 00:33:20,000
have the effect of

876
00:33:27,269 --> 00:33:23,200
making people happier indeed as

877
00:33:30,549 --> 00:33:27,279
as does your second your second

878
00:33:34,710 --> 00:33:30,559
uh spiritual practice which

879
00:33:36,070 --> 00:33:34,720
is gratitude and um my suggestion and i

880
00:33:38,549 --> 00:33:36,080
think this is probably

881
00:33:40,310 --> 00:33:38,559
i believe is your suggestion also i have

882
00:33:40,950 --> 00:33:40,320
a little gratitude when you wake up in

883
00:33:42,549 --> 00:33:40,960
the morning

884
00:33:44,870 --> 00:33:42,559
and a little gratitude when you go to

885
00:33:47,110 --> 00:33:44,880
sleep at night and it does

886
00:33:49,190 --> 00:33:47,120
tend to make you a happier person one a

887
00:33:51,269 --> 00:33:49,200
happier person

888
00:33:52,470 --> 00:33:51,279
definitely i mean there's now a lot of

889
00:33:54,310 --> 00:33:52,480
research done by

890
00:33:56,389 --> 00:33:54,320
psychologists particularly in the school

891
00:33:58,230 --> 00:33:56,399
of positive psychology

892
00:34:00,950 --> 00:33:58,240
which is the branch of psychology

893
00:34:04,230 --> 00:34:00,960
studying well-being and happiness

894
00:34:07,110 --> 00:34:04,240
that by being more grateful you

895
00:34:09,510 --> 00:34:07,120
can become happier uh there are now

896
00:34:10,310 --> 00:34:09,520
experiments and exercises that people do

897
00:34:12,950 --> 00:34:10,320
that make people

898
00:34:15,109 --> 00:34:12,960
measurably happier um through the

899
00:34:16,950 --> 00:34:15,119
practice of gratitude

900
00:34:19,669 --> 00:34:16,960
and this is something all religions

901
00:34:22,790 --> 00:34:19,679
encourage they all have thanksgiving

902
00:34:26,790 --> 00:34:22,800
for our blen the blessings in our lives

903
00:34:28,950 --> 00:34:26,800
um and it's now scientifically

904
00:34:31,030 --> 00:34:28,960
shown that this is really does work

905
00:34:32,230 --> 00:34:31,040
people really are happier and i think

906
00:34:35,270 --> 00:34:32,240
it's because they feel

907
00:34:37,270 --> 00:34:35,280
more connected if you receive something

908
00:34:38,389 --> 00:34:37,280
and you don't give thanks basically it

909
00:34:40,389 --> 00:34:38,399
stops with you

910
00:34:42,869 --> 00:34:40,399
if you receive something and give thanks

911
00:34:46,389 --> 00:34:42,879
it's it creates a circuit of flow

912
00:34:47,190 --> 00:34:46,399
and being part of a flow is is essential

913
00:34:49,829 --> 00:34:47,200
really for

914
00:34:51,270 --> 00:34:49,839
for well-being in humans and i suppose

915
00:34:54,550 --> 00:34:51,280
in all nature

916
00:34:58,150 --> 00:34:54,560
um so and

917
00:35:00,150 --> 00:34:58,160
i myself find that um the practice of

918
00:35:00,710 --> 00:35:00,160
gratitude is a really important thing i

919
00:35:03,349 --> 00:35:00,720
try

920
00:35:03,990 --> 00:35:03,359
before i go to bed in the evenings at

921
00:35:06,390 --> 00:35:04,000
night i

922
00:35:08,390 --> 00:35:06,400
i pray every evening and i always start

923
00:35:09,670 --> 00:35:08,400
by giving thanks

924
00:35:12,230 --> 00:35:09,680
for the things that have happened that

925
00:35:14,870 --> 00:35:12,240
day and for which i feel grateful

926
00:35:16,870 --> 00:35:14,880
and the simplest way to bring this into

927
00:35:19,190 --> 00:35:16,880
one's life as i suggest in my book

928
00:35:21,750 --> 00:35:19,200
science and spiritual practices

929
00:35:23,270 --> 00:35:21,760
um is to give thanks before meals then

930
00:35:26,069 --> 00:35:23,280
we can do it with other people

931
00:35:28,470 --> 00:35:26,079
and saying grace before meals is

932
00:35:31,430 --> 00:35:28,480
extremely traditional practice in

933
00:35:33,109 --> 00:35:31,440
all traditions but many people in the

934
00:35:35,510 --> 00:35:33,119
modern secular world have

935
00:35:36,710 --> 00:35:35,520
stopped doing it or embarrassed by doing

936
00:35:39,109 --> 00:35:36,720
it or

937
00:35:40,069 --> 00:35:39,119
whatever but this is i think is a loss

938
00:35:42,230 --> 00:35:40,079
and

939
00:35:44,950 --> 00:35:42,240
the simplest way of doing it without

940
00:35:45,750 --> 00:35:44,960
causing controversy is simply to hold

941
00:35:48,630 --> 00:35:45,760
hands

942
00:35:50,230 --> 00:35:48,640
round the table silently um then

943
00:35:51,349 --> 00:35:50,240
everyone can give thanks in their own

944
00:35:53,589 --> 00:35:51,359
way

945
00:35:55,349 --> 00:35:53,599
or to sing a grace together or for

946
00:35:56,230 --> 00:35:55,359
someone to say a grace but doing it

947
00:35:59,430 --> 00:35:56,240
silently

948
00:36:02,550 --> 00:35:59,440
is the easiest uh way of doing it

949
00:36:03,510 --> 00:36:02,560
um without sort of embarrassing anyone

950
00:36:05,990 --> 00:36:03,520
or raising

951
00:36:06,870 --> 00:36:06,000
any issues and then it can move on from

952
00:36:11,829 --> 00:36:06,880
that to

953
00:36:13,910 --> 00:36:11,839
uh expression through words or song

954
00:36:16,069 --> 00:36:13,920
anyway i think this is a very helpful

955
00:36:19,109 --> 00:36:16,079
and simple practice and we always do it

956
00:36:21,030 --> 00:36:19,119
before meals in my home here in london

957
00:36:23,270 --> 00:36:21,040
well i think that is that is an

958
00:36:25,750 --> 00:36:23,280
excellent idea as well as

959
00:36:26,790 --> 00:36:25,760
uh the morning practice of of greeting

960
00:36:30,150 --> 00:36:26,800
the sun

961
00:36:33,190 --> 00:36:30,160
through the gaitrea mantra or um

962
00:36:37,510 --> 00:36:33,200
a uh a sun salutation

963
00:36:37,829 --> 00:36:37,520
or both uh and i'm i'm i'm a yogini so i

964
00:36:41,829 --> 00:36:37,839
do

965
00:36:44,390 --> 00:36:41,839
sort of thing and i

966
00:36:45,990 --> 00:36:44,400
i can tell you that it does absolutely

967
00:36:48,710 --> 00:36:46,000
make you feel better

968
00:36:50,310 --> 00:36:48,720
but i wanted to just take a look at the

969
00:36:52,950 --> 00:36:50,320
other side of that

970
00:36:54,069 --> 00:36:52,960
um which is that you know we all have

971
00:36:56,310 --> 00:36:54,079
complaints in life

972
00:36:57,910 --> 00:36:56,320
there are things that go wrong and we we

973
00:37:00,069 --> 00:36:57,920
have every right to mention when

974
00:37:03,270 --> 00:37:00,079
something goes wrong but there are those

975
00:37:06,870 --> 00:37:03,280
folks out there who have through habit

976
00:37:10,550 --> 00:37:06,880
um decided that a a life

977
00:37:13,910 --> 00:37:10,560
of verbal complaints or expressing

978
00:37:16,950 --> 00:37:13,920
what they feel is missing constantly to

979
00:37:19,589 --> 00:37:16,960
all who come and hear uh

980
00:37:22,230 --> 00:37:19,599
this gives them a little more attention

981
00:37:23,030 --> 00:37:22,240
for the moment but in the long run i

982
00:37:27,510 --> 00:37:23,040
believe they

983
00:37:29,670 --> 00:37:27,520
end up being losers in the situation

984
00:37:31,670 --> 00:37:29,680
well that's certainly what the data show

985
00:37:33,589 --> 00:37:31,680
the positive psychology people have

986
00:37:35,430 --> 00:37:33,599
found that people who are grateful

987
00:37:37,670 --> 00:37:35,440
are not only happier but they're more

988
00:37:39,670 --> 00:37:37,680
popular i mean it's more fun being with

989
00:37:42,630 --> 00:37:39,680
someone who's happier and positive

990
00:37:43,430 --> 00:37:42,640
than someone who's feels entitled and

991
00:37:45,990 --> 00:37:43,440
miserable

992
00:37:47,510 --> 00:37:46,000
and is complaining all the time and of

993
00:37:48,150 --> 00:37:47,520
course it's important to be able to

994
00:37:50,630 --> 00:37:48,160
share

995
00:37:52,230 --> 00:37:50,640
our problems with others that's part of

996
00:37:54,390 --> 00:37:52,240
being part of a social group

997
00:37:56,390 --> 00:37:54,400
and that means we don't have to bear all

998
00:37:59,109 --> 00:37:56,400
our burdens by ourselves but

999
00:38:01,190 --> 00:37:59,119
uh not many people enjoy hanging out

1000
00:38:03,430 --> 00:38:01,200
with people who just complain or moan

1001
00:38:06,710 --> 00:38:03,440
all the time

1002
00:38:09,430 --> 00:38:06,720
indeed indeed so um

1003
00:38:10,470 --> 00:38:09,440
basically uh we're going to move towards

1004
00:38:13,510 --> 00:38:10,480
uh

1005
00:38:17,510 --> 00:38:13,520
your concept of more than the human

1006
00:38:19,470 --> 00:38:17,520
world and a word that is new to me

1007
00:38:21,510 --> 00:38:19,480
uh which i believe is pronounced

1008
00:38:24,550 --> 00:38:21,520
pan-enthism

1009
00:38:27,750 --> 00:38:24,560
yes that's right um

1010
00:38:30,069 --> 00:38:27,760
well in in in the um my chapter on

1011
00:38:31,190 --> 00:38:30,079
the um in science and spiritual

1012
00:38:33,910 --> 00:38:31,200
practices

1013
00:38:34,870 --> 00:38:33,920
on reconnecting with the more than human

1014
00:38:37,750 --> 00:38:34,880
world

1015
00:38:38,390 --> 00:38:37,760
um it's basically about relating to

1016
00:38:42,069 --> 00:38:38,400
nature

1017
00:38:46,069 --> 00:38:42,079
and for many people um being outdoors

1018
00:38:49,349 --> 00:38:46,079
hiking in park in parks being in gardens

1019
00:38:52,310 --> 00:38:49,359
um and just being out in nature

1020
00:38:53,109 --> 00:38:52,320
on the seaside by a river sailing on the

1021
00:38:55,829 --> 00:38:53,119
sea

1022
00:38:57,829 --> 00:38:55,839
um these are all ways of connecting with

1023
00:38:59,670 --> 00:38:57,839
the more than human world because after

1024
00:38:59,990 --> 00:38:59,680
all we're pretty small compared with the

1025
00:39:05,990 --> 00:39:00,000
whole

1026
00:39:14,230 --> 00:39:11,270
and for many people these exercises

1027
00:39:16,310 --> 00:39:14,240
or just practices give them a sense that

1028
00:39:19,270 --> 00:39:16,320
there's a greater life in nature

1029
00:39:20,550 --> 00:39:19,280
that that plants are truly alive animals

1030
00:39:25,510 --> 00:39:20,560
are truly alive

1031
00:39:28,230 --> 00:39:25,520
just living in a dead mechanical

1032
00:39:29,670 --> 00:39:28,240
world the world that mechanistic science

1033
00:39:32,310 --> 00:39:29,680
portrays

1034
00:39:34,710 --> 00:39:32,320
there's much more to it than that and

1035
00:39:36,790 --> 00:39:34,720
when we feel that sense of connection

1036
00:39:38,310 --> 00:39:36,800
with nature and connection with that

1037
00:39:40,310 --> 00:39:38,320
which is beyond us

1038
00:39:42,390 --> 00:39:40,320
um we have the feeling that we're

1039
00:39:45,109 --> 00:39:42,400
there's a larger form of life

1040
00:39:46,470 --> 00:39:45,119
in the world it's the the conventional

1041
00:39:48,710 --> 00:39:46,480
scientific view is that

1042
00:39:50,390 --> 00:39:48,720
consciousness is just a kind of bubble

1043
00:39:51,990 --> 00:39:50,400
inside human brains

1044
00:39:53,750 --> 00:39:52,000
and the rest of nature is dead

1045
00:39:56,470 --> 00:39:53,760
mechanical um and

1046
00:39:57,589 --> 00:39:56,480
inanimate but that's not how it feels

1047
00:40:01,030 --> 00:39:57,599
when you relate

1048
00:40:03,829 --> 00:40:01,040
to nature in this kind of living way so

1049
00:40:05,109 --> 00:40:03,839
um even within science there's a growing

1050
00:40:07,750 --> 00:40:05,119
movement to

1051
00:40:08,829 --> 00:40:07,760
understand the natural world in terms of

1052
00:40:11,589 --> 00:40:08,839
what's called

1053
00:40:14,150 --> 00:40:11,599
pan-psychism is

1054
00:40:15,750 --> 00:40:14,160
pan means everywhere psyche means mind

1055
00:40:19,430 --> 00:40:15,760
or as in psychology

1056
00:40:22,710 --> 00:40:19,440
from the greek word psyche meaning soul

1057
00:40:24,790 --> 00:40:22,720
so pan psychism is the idea that

1058
00:40:26,470 --> 00:40:24,800
nature is actually alive it's very

1059
00:40:28,230 --> 00:40:26,480
similar to what's always been called

1060
00:40:31,430 --> 00:40:28,240
animism

1061
00:40:34,470 --> 00:40:31,440
the belief that nature is alive not dead

1062
00:40:35,510 --> 00:40:34,480
um and if you take the view that the

1063
00:40:37,750 --> 00:40:35,520
earth is alive

1064
00:40:39,030 --> 00:40:37,760
gaia many people believe that and i

1065
00:40:41,190 --> 00:40:39,040
rightly so i think

1066
00:40:43,030 --> 00:40:41,200
that the solar system is a living

1067
00:40:45,430 --> 00:40:43,040
organism the whole galaxy

1068
00:40:46,550 --> 00:40:45,440
is like a gigantic organism the whole

1069
00:40:49,990 --> 00:40:46,560
cosmos

1070
00:40:50,550 --> 00:40:50,000
is like a vast living being with its own

1071
00:40:57,030 --> 00:40:50,560
mind

1072
00:40:59,430 --> 00:40:57,040
animism or pan-psychism um

1073
00:41:00,710 --> 00:40:59,440
it's sometimes also called pantheism the

1074
00:41:03,510 --> 00:41:00,720
idea that

1075
00:41:04,790 --> 00:41:03,520
nature is god and god is nature and god

1076
00:41:08,230 --> 00:41:04,800
is like the mind

1077
00:41:12,550 --> 00:41:08,240
of nature but there's a further view

1078
00:41:14,950 --> 00:41:12,560
um pan-enthusiasm which you asked about

1079
00:41:16,309 --> 00:41:14,960
which which goes further it says yes

1080
00:41:18,790 --> 00:41:16,319
nature is alive yes

1081
00:41:19,589 --> 00:41:18,800
god is in nature yes all these things

1082
00:41:22,950 --> 00:41:19,599
reflect

1083
00:41:25,670 --> 00:41:22,960
divine being the trees the rivers the

1084
00:41:28,710 --> 00:41:25,680
seas the skies the stars

1085
00:41:31,510 --> 00:41:28,720
but it's not just nature that

1086
00:41:32,550 --> 00:41:31,520
god is not just in nature but nature is

1087
00:41:35,030 --> 00:41:32,560
in god

1088
00:41:35,589 --> 00:41:35,040
so god transcends nature as well as

1089
00:41:38,390 --> 00:41:35,599
being

1090
00:41:39,750 --> 00:41:38,400
in nature god is both transcendent and

1091
00:41:43,589 --> 00:41:39,760
imminent

1092
00:41:45,430 --> 00:41:43,599
and so that's the view i take myself and

1093
00:41:47,670 --> 00:41:45,440
i think it's a

1094
00:41:49,670 --> 00:41:47,680
better view than there are three

1095
00:41:50,069 --> 00:41:49,680
alternative views that we have come

1096
00:41:52,630 --> 00:41:50,079
across

1097
00:41:53,349 --> 00:41:52,640
one is materialist atheist view there's

1098
00:41:55,430 --> 00:41:53,359
no god

1099
00:41:56,550 --> 00:41:55,440
there's no mind or spirit in nature it's

1100
00:41:58,230 --> 00:41:56,560
just machinery

1101
00:42:00,309 --> 00:41:58,240
and our own minds are nothing but the

1102
00:42:03,349 --> 00:42:00,319
activity of our brains

1103
00:42:05,430 --> 00:42:03,359
how depressing that is

1104
00:42:06,550 --> 00:42:05,440
that's the default view of most

1105
00:42:09,670 --> 00:42:06,560
scientists and

1106
00:42:11,589 --> 00:42:09,680
uh indeed many educated people is very

1107
00:42:13,829 --> 00:42:11,599
very depressing yes

1108
00:42:16,309 --> 00:42:13,839
then there's the view you you a view

1109
00:42:19,190 --> 00:42:16,319
that you sometimes get with

1110
00:42:21,349 --> 00:42:19,200
a certain kind of theistic religion that

1111
00:42:23,030 --> 00:42:21,359
nature is automatic and

1112
00:42:25,190 --> 00:42:23,040
just like the materialists think is

1113
00:42:26,790 --> 00:42:25,200
mechanical but there's a god beyond

1114
00:42:28,710 --> 00:42:26,800
nature who may have designed the

1115
00:42:30,390 --> 00:42:28,720
machinery of nature in the first place

1116
00:42:32,470 --> 00:42:30,400
and started it off

1117
00:42:33,910 --> 00:42:32,480
and that god is totally transcendent

1118
00:42:37,910 --> 00:42:33,920
outside nature

1119
00:42:41,349 --> 00:42:37,920
and nature itself is not divine it's not

1120
00:42:42,870 --> 00:42:41,359
it's not has no spiritual value that's a

1121
00:42:43,829 --> 00:42:42,880
view that you encounter with some

1122
00:42:47,990 --> 00:42:43,839
theists

1123
00:42:49,829 --> 00:42:48,000
some religious people have that view um

1124
00:42:51,430 --> 00:42:49,839
then you have the animist view that

1125
00:42:53,430 --> 00:42:51,440
nature is alive and

1126
00:42:54,790 --> 00:42:53,440
god there isn't a god out there beyond

1127
00:42:58,630 --> 00:42:54,800
nature there's just

1128
00:43:01,990 --> 00:42:58,640
nature that's a kind of romantic

1129
00:43:03,910 --> 00:43:02,000
religion of nature so we've got these

1130
00:43:05,430 --> 00:43:03,920
different views but then the view that i

1131
00:43:08,230 --> 00:43:05,440
think is much more inclusive

1132
00:43:10,470 --> 00:43:08,240
is that yes god is immanent within

1133
00:43:11,430 --> 00:43:10,480
nature god your nature is alive god's

1134
00:43:14,069 --> 00:43:11,440
within nature

1135
00:43:15,030 --> 00:43:14,079
but god is also beyond nature including

1136
00:43:18,069 --> 00:43:15,040
nature

1137
00:43:19,349 --> 00:43:18,079
and so pan and theism pan means

1138
00:43:22,870 --> 00:43:19,359
everywhere

1139
00:43:26,069 --> 00:43:22,880
n means in theism means god so god is

1140
00:43:26,710 --> 00:43:26,079
in nature and nature is in god and i

1141
00:43:29,670 --> 00:43:26,720
think that's

1142
00:43:31,349 --> 00:43:29,680
by far the most satisfactory view um

1143
00:43:33,990 --> 00:43:31,359
it's also the view that

1144
00:43:34,550 --> 00:43:34,000
uh came naturally to christians and and

1145
00:43:37,430 --> 00:43:34,560
jews

1146
00:43:38,309 --> 00:43:37,440
uh before the scientific revolution in

1147
00:43:40,870 --> 00:43:38,319
in the

1148
00:43:42,870 --> 00:43:40,880
um middle ages in europe the ages that

1149
00:43:43,829 --> 00:43:42,880
gave us the great gothic cathedrals of

1150
00:43:46,710 --> 00:43:43,839
europe

1151
00:43:48,710 --> 00:43:46,720
and nature was seen as alive and god was

1152
00:43:51,190 --> 00:43:48,720
the god of the living world

1153
00:43:53,349 --> 00:43:51,200
and that i think is much the best view

1154
00:43:57,190 --> 00:43:53,359
and one that makes most sense to me

1155
00:43:58,950 --> 00:43:57,200
well is is could we extrapolate that to

1156
00:44:02,950 --> 00:43:58,960
something that i think about

1157
00:44:06,150 --> 00:44:02,960
in terms of when i think of christianity

1158
00:44:08,390 --> 00:44:06,160
and i think of the holy ghost uh what is

1159
00:44:10,870 --> 00:44:08,400
called the holy ghost which is if you

1160
00:44:11,910 --> 00:44:10,880
just uh you know go to sunday school

1161
00:44:15,190 --> 00:44:11,920
it's sort of like

1162
00:44:19,589 --> 00:44:15,200
a real mystery but when you think of

1163
00:44:23,109 --> 00:44:19,599
that aspect of of the of the godhead

1164
00:44:26,870 --> 00:44:23,119
as being what is inside

1165
00:44:28,790 --> 00:44:26,880
everyone and inside all plants all

1166
00:44:32,309 --> 00:44:28,800
animals the earth

1167
00:44:35,750 --> 00:44:32,319
the stars the solar system uh the galaxy

1168
00:44:38,950 --> 00:44:35,760
all of that stuff is sort of what

1169
00:44:41,589 --> 00:44:38,960
is the makeup of uh the holy ghost on

1170
00:44:43,109 --> 00:44:41,599
on some level you could equate it that's

1171
00:44:45,829 --> 00:44:43,119
that's somehow the way

1172
00:44:47,750 --> 00:44:45,839
the way that i see it um i i don't want

1173
00:44:50,470 --> 00:44:47,760
to go down the road too

1174
00:44:52,710 --> 00:44:50,480
too much of religion per se as you know

1175
00:44:55,829 --> 00:44:52,720
christianity as opposed to judaism

1176
00:44:56,710 --> 00:44:55,839
as opposed to islam or the eastern

1177
00:44:59,990 --> 00:44:56,720
religions

1178
00:45:02,630 --> 00:45:00,000
but rather to just sort of um think of

1179
00:45:06,950 --> 00:45:02,640
that in terms of the philosophy of it

1180
00:45:10,870 --> 00:45:06,960
and also um begin to talk about your

1181
00:45:13,270 --> 00:45:10,880
uh discussion uh which i heard online

1182
00:45:17,190 --> 00:45:13,280
is the sun conscious which i found to be

1183
00:45:18,870 --> 00:45:17,200
a wonderful wonderful discussion

1184
00:45:20,870 --> 00:45:18,880
yes well i i think first of all the

1185
00:45:21,829 --> 00:45:20,880
point about the holy ghost or the holy

1186
00:45:24,230 --> 00:45:21,839
spirit

1187
00:45:24,950 --> 00:45:24,240
is that there's an energetic principle

1188
00:45:27,510 --> 00:45:24,960
in nature

1189
00:45:29,190 --> 00:45:27,520
all all the great religions have the

1190
00:45:32,870 --> 00:45:29,200
idea that there's

1191
00:45:34,710 --> 00:45:32,880
the the divine nature has two main ways

1192
00:45:35,750 --> 00:45:34,720
of interfacing with the world one is

1193
00:45:38,470 --> 00:45:35,760
through forms

1194
00:45:39,190 --> 00:45:38,480
patterns structure meaning words the

1195
00:45:42,230 --> 00:45:39,200
logos

1196
00:45:44,069 --> 00:45:42,240
in the holy trinity or um you know the

1197
00:45:46,790 --> 00:45:44,079
word

1198
00:45:47,430 --> 00:45:46,800
and the other is through movement breath

1199
00:45:49,750 --> 00:45:47,440
change

1200
00:45:50,550 --> 00:45:49,760
wind and what we call energy within

1201
00:45:53,190 --> 00:45:50,560
science

1202
00:45:54,230 --> 00:45:53,200
all these different forms of energy and

1203
00:45:56,790 --> 00:45:54,240
these are both

1204
00:45:58,230 --> 00:45:56,800
uh ways in which the divine works

1205
00:46:01,589 --> 00:45:58,240
through the world

1206
00:46:03,670 --> 00:46:01,599
um and the

1207
00:46:06,390 --> 00:46:03,680
within modern science the formative

1208
00:46:09,430 --> 00:46:06,400
principle is expressed through fields

1209
00:46:10,870 --> 00:46:09,440
and the um spirit principle is expressed

1210
00:46:13,349 --> 00:46:10,880
through energy

1211
00:46:14,710 --> 00:46:13,359
and when we look at the sun uh most

1212
00:46:16,950 --> 00:46:14,720
people are

1213
00:46:18,550 --> 00:46:16,960
educated scientifically assume the sun

1214
00:46:20,870 --> 00:46:18,560
is just

1215
00:46:23,109 --> 00:46:20,880
a sort of a huge hydrogen bomb in the

1216
00:46:25,430 --> 00:46:23,119
sky working mechanically

1217
00:46:26,150 --> 00:46:25,440
but actually the sun itself is a source

1218
00:46:27,910 --> 00:46:26,160
of energy

1219
00:46:30,309 --> 00:46:27,920
all the energy we have here on earth

1220
00:46:33,670 --> 00:46:30,319
comes from this what nearly all of it

1221
00:46:36,069 --> 00:46:33,680
um but it and it represents just

1222
00:46:38,150 --> 00:46:36,079
these two principles it has a shape a

1223
00:46:38,950 --> 00:46:38,160
form which comes from its gravitational

1224
00:46:42,550 --> 00:46:38,960
field

1225
00:46:45,670 --> 00:46:42,560
the sun spots the flares of the

1226
00:46:46,150 --> 00:46:45,680
pulsing activity of the sun all comes

1227
00:46:48,309 --> 00:46:46,160
through

1228
00:46:49,190 --> 00:46:48,319
the electromagnetic fields which are

1229
00:46:52,150 --> 00:46:49,200
shaping it

1230
00:46:52,710 --> 00:46:52,160
so fields are what shape it give it form

1231
00:46:54,630 --> 00:46:52,720
um

1232
00:46:56,710 --> 00:46:54,640
and then it's emitting all this energy

1233
00:46:57,990 --> 00:46:56,720
the sunlight and the flares and all the

1234
00:47:00,790 --> 00:46:58,000
things that come

1235
00:47:03,109 --> 00:47:00,800
the power life on earth the constant

1236
00:47:06,309 --> 00:47:03,119
flow of energy from the sun

1237
00:47:09,430 --> 00:47:06,319
is as it were the spirit principle um

1238
00:47:10,069 --> 00:47:09,440
and the flow of energy if we have a view

1239
00:47:13,109 --> 00:47:10,079
of a living

1240
00:47:15,030 --> 00:47:13,119
world it's not just inanimate energy

1241
00:47:16,150 --> 00:47:15,040
it's living spirit that's coming to us

1242
00:47:19,349 --> 00:47:16,160
from the sun

1243
00:47:21,750 --> 00:47:19,359
and traditional um

1244
00:47:23,430 --> 00:47:21,760
religious views have always seen the sun

1245
00:47:26,470 --> 00:47:23,440
as alive

1246
00:47:28,870 --> 00:47:26,480
that's why in the hindu tradition

1247
00:47:30,549 --> 00:47:28,880
the gayatri mantra which is a hymn to

1248
00:47:33,430 --> 00:47:30,559
the sun which you mentioned

1249
00:47:35,270 --> 00:47:33,440
earlier is one of the most fundamental

1250
00:47:38,309 --> 00:47:35,280
mantras in hinduism

1251
00:47:41,270 --> 00:47:38,319
and one of the most basic yoga exercises

1252
00:47:42,309 --> 00:47:41,280
salutation to the sun surya namaskar

1253
00:47:44,470 --> 00:47:42,319
which you do and

1254
00:47:46,630 --> 00:47:44,480
i which i do i do that every morning

1255
00:47:50,710 --> 00:47:46,640
have done for more than 40 years

1256
00:47:54,710 --> 00:47:50,720
um is a way of recognizing the source

1257
00:47:57,990 --> 00:47:54,720
of light and life here on earth um

1258
00:48:01,109 --> 00:47:58,000
i myself think that the sun

1259
00:48:01,990 --> 00:48:01,119
is a conscious being that and so the

1260
00:48:05,510 --> 00:48:02,000
other stars

1261
00:48:09,589 --> 00:48:05,520
and sows the entire galaxy

1262
00:48:11,430 --> 00:48:09,599
and um we're of course

1263
00:48:13,670 --> 00:48:11,440
schooled to think of the sun as just

1264
00:48:14,470 --> 00:48:13,680
being an inanimate mechanism that's the

1265
00:48:16,790 --> 00:48:14,480
standard

1266
00:48:19,190 --> 00:48:16,800
mechanistic materialist world view that

1267
00:48:22,230 --> 00:48:19,200
we're educated in at schools and in

1268
00:48:24,069 --> 00:48:22,240
colleges and universities um but all

1269
00:48:25,349 --> 00:48:24,079
traditional cultures have seen the sun

1270
00:48:29,750 --> 00:48:25,359
is alive and

1271
00:48:32,150 --> 00:48:29,760
the earth is alive too gaia mother earth

1272
00:48:33,910 --> 00:48:32,160
i think it makes more sense of what we

1273
00:48:36,069 --> 00:48:33,920
know about the sound and the stars to

1274
00:48:39,190 --> 00:48:36,079
think of them as alive as dead

1275
00:48:40,309 --> 00:48:39,200
and of course they don't reproduce in

1276
00:48:43,589 --> 00:48:40,319
the same way that

1277
00:48:45,670 --> 00:48:43,599
biological organisms do

1278
00:48:47,030 --> 00:48:45,680
but they do have life cycles they're

1279
00:48:49,589 --> 00:48:47,040
born they

1280
00:48:51,670 --> 00:48:49,599
grow through a phase of maturation and

1281
00:48:54,790 --> 00:48:51,680
and finally senescence and then

1282
00:48:55,910 --> 00:48:54,800
they die stars have a life cycle so do

1283
00:48:58,950 --> 00:48:55,920
planets

1284
00:49:01,750 --> 00:48:58,960
um so um

1285
00:49:03,670 --> 00:49:01,760
i think that it affects the way we

1286
00:49:05,430 --> 00:49:03,680
relate to the world around us when we

1287
00:49:08,630 --> 00:49:05,440
think of the more than human world

1288
00:49:11,510 --> 00:49:08,640
including the sun as alive

1289
00:49:12,470 --> 00:49:11,520
and as channels of the spirit which

1290
00:49:16,309 --> 00:49:12,480
works through

1291
00:49:20,390 --> 00:49:16,319
all nature and is part of

1292
00:49:24,390 --> 00:49:20,400
the the divine activity in all nature

1293
00:49:27,829 --> 00:49:24,400
i i agree uh with that point of view

1294
00:49:28,150 --> 00:49:27,839
very largely i agree i kind of feel when

1295
00:49:38,870 --> 00:49:28,160
i

1296
00:49:40,549 --> 00:49:38,880
not you know the sun doesn't have baby

1297
00:49:43,670 --> 00:49:40,559
sons necessarily

1298
00:49:44,470 --> 00:49:43,680
and uh so forth so that there is uh

1299
00:49:49,190 --> 00:49:44,480
there

1300
00:49:52,549 --> 00:49:49,200
alive which is one thing

1301
00:49:56,390 --> 00:49:52,559
that a biological organism breathes

1302
00:49:59,829 --> 00:49:56,400
or uh has uh respiration

1303
00:50:02,069 --> 00:49:59,839
in the case of plants and that is one

1304
00:50:04,670 --> 00:50:02,079
form of being alive then there's

1305
00:50:06,069 --> 00:50:04,680
consciousness and then there's

1306
00:50:08,710 --> 00:50:06,079
self-consciousness

1307
00:50:10,790 --> 00:50:08,720
so there's a lot of gradations in there

1308
00:50:14,470 --> 00:50:10,800
as to what we might mean

1309
00:50:15,750 --> 00:50:14,480
but moving into the science aspect which

1310
00:50:19,349 --> 00:50:15,760
you are better

1311
00:50:21,829 --> 00:50:19,359
uh better uh to speak of than i

1312
00:50:23,030 --> 00:50:21,839
can because it's just a little bit above

1313
00:50:26,069 --> 00:50:23,040
my pay grade

1314
00:50:26,710 --> 00:50:26,079
i do understand that much of the sun's

1315
00:50:30,309 --> 00:50:26,720
energy

1316
00:50:33,910 --> 00:50:30,319
in

1317
00:50:37,470 --> 00:50:33,920
is electromagnetic and we only

1318
00:50:39,430 --> 00:50:37,480
sense a certain bandwidth of the

1319
00:50:42,790 --> 00:50:39,440
electromagnetic spectrum

1320
00:50:45,910 --> 00:50:42,800
through our eyes and our ears so that

1321
00:50:48,150 --> 00:50:45,920
much of the communication let's say

1322
00:50:48,630 --> 00:50:48,160
between the sun and the earth which i

1323
00:50:51,750 --> 00:50:48,640
believe

1324
00:50:54,630 --> 00:50:51,760
is going on constantly and um you

1325
00:50:56,790 --> 00:50:54,640
made me think more about the uh the

1326
00:50:59,829 --> 00:50:56,800
communication between the sun

1327
00:51:01,030 --> 00:50:59,839
and other stars and the entire galaxy

1328
00:51:04,230 --> 00:51:01,040
when i heard

1329
00:51:07,270 --> 00:51:04,240
your uh your lecture there on that

1330
00:51:07,990 --> 00:51:07,280
um is it possible that there's a whole

1331
00:51:10,950 --> 00:51:08,000
lot of

1332
00:51:12,069 --> 00:51:10,960
communication going on that as

1333
00:51:14,870 --> 00:51:12,079
biological

1334
00:51:15,829 --> 00:51:14,880
entities we are not aware of but through

1335
00:51:18,630 --> 00:51:15,839
meditation

1336
00:51:19,589 --> 00:51:18,640
and and and getting out of out of the

1337
00:51:23,589 --> 00:51:19,599
body

1338
00:51:26,870 --> 00:51:23,599
in essence we are able to connect with

1339
00:51:30,230 --> 00:51:26,880
does that make sense well i think so

1340
00:51:33,349 --> 00:51:30,240
i mean the relating to nature is

1341
00:51:36,069 --> 00:51:33,359
is you know we can do it

1342
00:51:37,910 --> 00:51:36,079
sometimes by a direct experience very

1343
00:51:39,750 --> 00:51:37,920
often people have a kind of mystical

1344
00:51:40,870 --> 00:51:39,760
experience when they're outdoors in the

1345
00:51:43,349 --> 00:51:40,880
natural world

1346
00:51:43,990 --> 00:51:43,359
of connection with the earth with the

1347
00:51:46,790 --> 00:51:44,000
sky

1348
00:51:47,829 --> 00:51:46,800
with the sun with the stars and i think

1349
00:51:49,990 --> 00:51:47,839
that is a real

1350
00:51:51,349 --> 00:51:50,000
connection not just an imaginary thing

1351
00:51:54,390 --> 00:51:51,359
inside brains

1352
00:51:55,190 --> 00:51:54,400
i think we can have these connections we

1353
00:51:56,390 --> 00:51:55,200
are

1354
00:51:58,710 --> 00:51:56,400
everything in the universe is

1355
00:52:02,069 --> 00:51:58,720
interconnected and after all

1356
00:52:05,030 --> 00:52:02,079
at the very foundations of science in

1357
00:52:06,309 --> 00:52:05,040
the 17th century was newton's theory of

1358
00:52:08,549 --> 00:52:06,319
gravitation

1359
00:52:10,309 --> 00:52:08,559
and what newton was saying is that every

1360
00:52:12,549 --> 00:52:10,319
particle of matter in the universe

1361
00:52:13,910 --> 00:52:12,559
attracts every other particle of matter

1362
00:52:16,230 --> 00:52:13,920
in the entire universe

1363
00:52:17,750 --> 00:52:16,240
it was basically even at the heart of

1364
00:52:19,390 --> 00:52:17,760
conventional science

1365
00:52:21,190 --> 00:52:19,400
is this vision of universal

1366
00:52:24,230 --> 00:52:21,200
interconnectedness

1367
00:52:27,030 --> 00:52:24,240
and

1368
00:52:29,190 --> 00:52:27,040
interconnectedness at a distance the

1369
00:52:31,990 --> 00:52:29,200
into gravitational interconnectedness

1370
00:52:35,349 --> 00:52:32,000
works through empty space over

1371
00:52:37,750 --> 00:52:35,359
universal distances um so

1372
00:52:39,910 --> 00:52:37,760
um i don't think it's just simply a

1373
00:52:40,790 --> 00:52:39,920
fantasy or an illusion to think of these

1374
00:52:43,030 --> 00:52:40,800
connections

1375
00:52:45,109 --> 00:52:43,040
we really are connected and we really

1376
00:52:45,990 --> 00:52:45,119
are connected to distant stars by the

1377
00:52:47,470 --> 00:52:46,000
light they admit

1378
00:52:50,309 --> 00:52:47,480
which is means through the

1379
00:52:54,069 --> 00:52:50,319
electromagnetic field

1380
00:52:56,630 --> 00:52:54,079
so i think all of these things

1381
00:52:58,230 --> 00:52:56,640
we know through science and science has

1382
00:53:00,309 --> 00:52:58,240
helped us know them much better than

1383
00:53:01,670 --> 00:53:00,319
anyone knew them before but they're

1384
00:53:05,829 --> 00:53:01,680
usually dismissed as

1385
00:53:08,549 --> 00:53:05,839
just physical interconnections um

1386
00:53:09,190 --> 00:53:08,559
and the universe is usually regarded as

1387
00:53:12,630 --> 00:53:09,200
just

1388
00:53:15,829 --> 00:53:12,640
dead but you see i think that

1389
00:53:18,790 --> 00:53:15,839
life involves in biology it involves

1390
00:53:21,270 --> 00:53:18,800
things like reproduction excretion etc

1391
00:53:23,430 --> 00:53:21,280
um but i think that basically what it's

1392
00:53:26,630 --> 00:53:23,440
about is self-organization

1393
00:53:28,309 --> 00:53:26,640
and having an organism having its own

1394
00:53:31,349 --> 00:53:28,319
purposes and goals

1395
00:53:35,430 --> 00:53:31,359
and the ability to organize itself

1396
00:53:37,190 --> 00:53:35,440
it may or may not be conscious

1397
00:53:39,510 --> 00:53:37,200
and there are as you said different

1398
00:53:41,589 --> 00:53:39,520
levels or degrees of consciousness

1399
00:53:43,829 --> 00:53:41,599
and even in our own case most of our

1400
00:53:46,470 --> 00:53:43,839
mental activity is unconscious

1401
00:53:47,829 --> 00:53:46,480
and the unconscious mind plays a huge

1402
00:53:50,230 --> 00:53:47,839
part in our lives

1403
00:53:51,190 --> 00:53:50,240
our habits are usually unconscious when

1404
00:53:53,589 --> 00:53:51,200
we dream

1405
00:53:54,630 --> 00:53:53,599
suddenly amazing things happen to us or

1406
00:53:56,470 --> 00:53:54,640
we're within

1407
00:53:58,309 --> 00:53:56,480
these amazing dreams which we've not

1408
00:54:00,309 --> 00:53:58,319
consciously invented

1409
00:54:02,390 --> 00:54:00,319
yet they're coming to us through our

1410
00:54:04,630 --> 00:54:02,400
unconscious minds

1411
00:54:06,069 --> 00:54:04,640
so i think all of this is actually true

1412
00:54:08,309 --> 00:54:06,079
of all nature

1413
00:54:09,430 --> 00:54:08,319
and spiritual practices and ways of

1414
00:54:11,910 --> 00:54:09,440
breaking out

1415
00:54:13,510 --> 00:54:11,920
of our isolation the idea that it's all

1416
00:54:15,589 --> 00:54:13,520
just inside the head

1417
00:54:17,510 --> 00:54:15,599
into recognizing these much deeper and

1418
00:54:19,190 --> 00:54:17,520
wider connections

1419
00:54:21,190 --> 00:54:19,200
and that's really one of the reasons i

1420
00:54:22,309 --> 00:54:21,200
wrote this book science and spiritual

1421
00:54:25,349 --> 00:54:22,319
practices

1422
00:54:26,630 --> 00:54:25,359
well i can just say that it is a really

1423
00:54:29,829 --> 00:54:26,640
wonderful book

1424
00:54:33,750 --> 00:54:29,839
i have it in on the desk in front of me

1425
00:54:36,710 --> 00:54:33,760
right now and um i want to

1426
00:54:37,670 --> 00:54:36,720
thank you so much for being with us

1427
00:54:40,789 --> 00:54:37,680
today

1428
00:54:43,349 --> 00:54:40,799
on shattered reality podcast we have

1429
00:54:46,630 --> 00:54:43,359
rupert sheldrake

1430
00:54:49,349 --> 00:54:46,640
who has written 12 books and

1431
00:54:50,309 --> 00:54:49,359
his latest is science and spiritual

1432
00:54:53,430 --> 00:54:50,319
practice

1433
00:54:56,630 --> 00:54:53,440
i want to just close by telling you

1434
00:54:59,910 --> 00:54:56,640
a synchronicity that occurred i

1435
00:55:04,069 --> 00:54:59,920
belong to a an intentional group with

1436
00:55:08,069 --> 00:55:04,079
a group of um remote viewers

1437
00:55:11,990 --> 00:55:08,079
and one of while i was preparing

1438
00:55:15,030 --> 00:55:12,000
this uh interview for today

1439
00:55:18,630 --> 00:55:15,040
during this past week one of these uh

1440
00:55:21,270 --> 00:55:18,640
remote viewers put a um

1441
00:55:22,470 --> 00:55:21,280
a posting up to the the intentional

1442
00:55:25,910 --> 00:55:22,480
group's

1443
00:55:26,309 --> 00:55:25,920
uh facebook page which is private uh but

1444
00:55:28,789 --> 00:55:26,319
it's

1445
00:55:30,309 --> 00:55:28,799
i'm not i'm not letting any uh secrets

1446
00:55:34,470 --> 00:55:30,319
out of the bag so to speak

1447
00:55:37,750 --> 00:55:34,480
but what he put up was your lecture

1448
00:55:40,069 --> 00:55:37,760
from youtube is the sun conscious and

1449
00:55:41,270 --> 00:55:40,079
i just felt that this was an incredible

1450
00:55:43,990 --> 00:55:41,280
synchronicity

1451
00:55:47,030 --> 00:55:44,000
since the night before i had been

1452
00:55:50,870 --> 00:55:47,040
listening to the very same lecture

1453
00:55:52,870 --> 00:55:50,880
on youtube uh that you gave

1454
00:55:54,630 --> 00:55:52,880
very amazing that that coincidence

1455
00:55:57,910 --> 00:55:54,640
happened yes

1456
00:55:58,549 --> 00:55:57,920
i i'm all for synchronicities in in my

1457
00:56:00,870 --> 00:55:58,559
life

1458
00:56:02,069 --> 00:56:00,880
and so i want to thank you very very

1459
00:56:04,950 --> 00:56:02,079
much

1460
00:56:07,430 --> 00:56:04,960
dr rupert sheldrake for being our

1461
00:56:10,789 --> 00:56:07,440
honored guest i'm giving you

1462
00:56:12,549 --> 00:56:10,799
oodles of gratitude as per science and

1463
00:56:15,190 --> 00:56:12,559
spiritual practices

1464
00:56:16,630 --> 00:56:15,200
and um thank you so much for being with

1465
00:56:19,430 --> 00:56:16,640
us today

1466
00:56:20,549 --> 00:56:19,440
for doing this thank you for putting out

1467
00:56:24,230 --> 00:56:20,559
your series and

1468
00:56:29,109 --> 00:56:24,240
and helping to open up minds and

1469
00:56:31,030 --> 00:56:29,119
and indeed spread gratitude

1470
00:56:32,230 --> 00:56:31,040
and thank you and we're gonna say

1471
00:56:36,150 --> 00:56:32,240
goodbye now

1472
00:56:39,589 --> 00:56:36,160
uh to dr rupert sheldrake a fabulous

1473
00:56:40,390 --> 00:56:39,599
interesting scientist a biologist from

1474
00:56:43,270 --> 00:56:40,400
england

1475
00:56:44,390 --> 00:56:43,280
uh have a wonderful evening across the

1476
00:56:48,230 --> 00:56:44,400
pond

1477
00:56:51,829 --> 00:56:48,240
thanks very much okay bye now so

1478
00:56:52,150 --> 00:56:51,839
uh shattered reality listeners this was

1479
00:56:55,349 --> 00:56:52,160
a

1480
00:56:57,750 --> 00:56:55,359
very very wonderful um

1481
00:57:00,390 --> 00:56:57,760
experience to talk to dr rupert

1482
00:57:03,430 --> 00:57:00,400
sheldrake i had the honor of meeting him

1483
00:57:06,630 --> 00:57:03,440
back in november in new york city uh

1484
00:57:09,829 --> 00:57:06,640
thanks to a very dear friend of mine and

1485
00:57:12,470 --> 00:57:09,839
uh named karen page i hope she doesn't

1486
00:57:17,349 --> 00:57:15,910
stating her name here next up on

1487
00:57:21,349 --> 00:57:17,359
shattered reality

1488
00:57:24,470 --> 00:57:21,359
we will have a a discussion

1489
00:57:26,630 --> 00:57:24,480
about magic stores

1490
00:57:28,150 --> 00:57:26,640
not magic stores that sell tricks but

1491
00:57:31,829 --> 00:57:28,160
magic with the k

1492
00:57:33,270 --> 00:57:31,839
sometimes known as botanicas sometimes

1493
00:57:35,510 --> 00:57:33,280
known as grigri

1494
00:57:36,549 --> 00:57:35,520
shops and i'm sure there are various

1495
00:57:39,990 --> 00:57:36,559
other names in

1496
00:57:42,150 --> 00:57:40,000
other cultures but they're pervasive uh

1497
00:57:43,910 --> 00:57:42,160
in the world they sort of operate a

1498
00:57:47,349 --> 00:57:43,920
little bit subrosa

1499
00:57:48,230 --> 00:57:47,359
beneath the uh the radar of a lot of

1500
00:57:51,270 --> 00:57:48,240
people and

1501
00:57:53,349 --> 00:57:51,280
there's one in almost every uh major

1502
00:57:57,190 --> 00:57:53,359
city and generally more than one

1503
00:57:59,990 --> 00:57:57,200
we're going to talk to um one of the

1504
00:58:01,990 --> 00:58:00,000
uh one of the earliest botanicas in new

1505
00:58:05,270 --> 00:58:02,000
york city the owner

1506
00:58:08,630 --> 00:58:05,280
and of of that botanica

1507
00:58:11,190 --> 00:58:08,640
and uh we're gonna also have

1508
00:58:14,069 --> 00:58:11,200
david metcalfe who has studied

1509
00:58:16,390 --> 00:58:14,079
botanicals grigri shops magic stores

1510
00:58:17,510 --> 00:58:16,400
in other locations he's going to be our

1511
00:58:21,430 --> 00:58:17,520
guest along

1512
00:58:24,789 --> 00:58:21,440
with jason mizrahi of original products

1513
00:58:27,910 --> 00:58:24,799
so that's coming up next after that

1514
00:58:31,270 --> 00:58:27,920
we're hoping to have on um greg

1515
00:58:34,549 --> 00:58:31,280
bishop and his co-author uh

1516
00:58:36,390 --> 00:58:34,559
for a is for adamski i am

1517
00:58:38,230 --> 00:58:36,400
sorry it's going to come to me as soon

1518
00:58:38,549 --> 00:58:38,240
as i get off the air the co-author's

1519
00:58:41,750 --> 00:58:38,559
name

1520
00:58:45,109 --> 00:58:41,760
it's on the back of my tongue somewhere

1521
00:58:48,829 --> 00:58:45,119
and i'm also interested shattered

1522
00:58:51,510 --> 00:58:48,839
reality listeners if you have a

1523
00:58:55,030 --> 00:58:51,520
suggestion for a guest

1524
00:58:58,390 --> 00:58:55,040
uh who would be uh

1525
00:59:00,230 --> 00:58:58,400
good for the mandela effect discussion

1526
00:59:02,150 --> 00:59:00,240
it's been coming up more and more

1527
00:59:05,910 --> 00:59:02,160
recently and there are

1528
00:59:09,030 --> 00:59:05,920
some theories about it that are

1529
00:59:11,270 --> 00:59:09,040
really out out in left field and others

1530
00:59:13,670 --> 00:59:11,280
that are a little bit more mainstream

1531
00:59:14,470 --> 00:59:13,680
i'm looking for a guest that can discuss

1532
00:59:17,190 --> 00:59:14,480
all

1533
00:59:18,069 --> 00:59:17,200
of the aspects of the mandela effect

1534
00:59:21,030 --> 00:59:18,079
without

1535
00:59:21,670 --> 00:59:21,040
either being too pedantic about it or

1536
00:59:26,390 --> 00:59:21,680
too

1537
00:59:28,950 --> 00:59:26,400
of a better way to express it

1538
00:59:29,829 --> 00:59:28,960
also i wanted to ask all of you

1539
00:59:32,870 --> 00:59:29,839
listeners

1540
00:59:37,030 --> 00:59:32,880
to like us on facebook like us

1541
00:59:40,309 --> 00:59:37,040
on shatteredrealitypodcast.wordpress.com

1542
00:59:41,910 --> 00:59:40,319
and shatteredrealitypodcast.com our two

1543
00:59:44,950 --> 00:59:41,920
websites

1544
00:59:49,109 --> 00:59:44,960
as well many of our podcasts are

1545
00:59:52,309 --> 00:59:49,119
on youtube and you can make a comment on

1546
00:59:55,510 --> 00:59:52,319
any of these sites and we will hear it

1547
00:59:58,309 --> 00:59:55,520
but we have had requests for

1548
00:59:59,030 --> 00:59:58,319
a guest on the mandela effect and i

1549
01:00:02,789 --> 00:59:59,040
would

1550
01:00:05,829 --> 01:00:02,799
like to follow that path up

1551
01:00:08,870 --> 01:00:05,839
so hoping to greet

1552
01:00:12,309 --> 01:00:08,880
kate valentine as well on our next show

1553
01:00:14,230 --> 01:00:12,319
but certainly soon uh our co-host kate

1554
01:00:16,549 --> 01:00:14,240
valentine has been absent for a while

1555
01:00:19,750 --> 01:00:16,559
she will be coming back

1556
01:00:23,270 --> 01:00:19,760
eventually and um so

1557
01:00:36,090 --> 01:00:23,280
now i am going to do our final